dlasky: Pluto is a Planet Protest

David Lasky (

dlasky) wrote,
@ 2008-03-28 01:19:00

Current music:

Bjork "Pluto"

Pluto is a Planet Protest
A couple of weeks ago, I met some people who made me aware that Pluto, long regarded as our ninth planet, was voted "not a planet" by a small elitist group of astronomers, who did not consult with the scientific community at large. Does it sound like a US presidential election of recent memory? So anyway, I got involved in a protest in Seattle's Greenwood neighborhood. You can see and hear me talking (in silhouette) about 1:10 minutes into this video...

For more Pluto protestations and info on the man who discovered Pluto, see this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65SD54M8LkY

(Post a new comment)

	daltonnw 2008-03-28 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	I'm all for sending the elitist astronomers and the Bush admin to Pluto. (Reply to this)

	jmargethe 2008-03-28 08:47 pm UTC (link)
	but you told me you don't believe in the value of public protests! (Reply to this)(Thread)

Good point!

dlasky
2008-03-28 11:07 pm UTC (link)

That's a very good point! And to be honest, I don't think this protest actually did much good. But it was fun. :)

I think if I drew a comic about the demotion of Pluto, or wrote letters to the editor, etc, it would reach more people than this protest did. But I will concede that if this protest hadn't happened, I would have remained blissfully unaware of the Pluto situation. So I'm willing to admit that street protests do have value. They do! I admit it. But I doubt that the IAU (International Astronomers Union) is quaking in its boots right now.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

I should elaborate further

dlasky
2008-03-29 01:41 am UTC (link)

I can't remember exactly what I'd said on your LJ thread, but I now realize that it was probably not as articulate as it should have been. I *don't* believe that public protests have zero value. It would be wrong to encourage people to stay home when they want to protest something -- that's exactly the opposite of what I believe. My feeling is that street protests have lost their impact by, over time, becoming an accepted thing in society. The same way you now might hear punk rock played in your grocery store. Musicians who want to be radical can't repeat the same 3 chords and the truth of their predecessors. They have to adapt to the times, think outside the box, etc.

The Pluto protest ended up at the Neptune Cafe, and interestingly there was a photo posted near the espresso machine of MLK Jr looking out at the throngs of the March on Washington. That was a magic moment, and a breakthrough for social change in America. But once it had been done, it became less and less special to fill up the monument grounds with protesters.

So, Jennie, I never meant to say that it was of no use to march in a protest, and I apologize if it came out that way. Dissent is important. And while marches are useful ways to get the word out, I feel there are other effective ways to express dissent that need to be utilized. Posting information and opinions on a blog, for example. Or stating opinions in everyday life, out in public, to friends and family -- rather than at a designated protest. Not buying certain products, etc. There may be a hidden danger in the street march or the Internet petition in that the protester maybe feels "Well, I've done my duty," and doesn't carry the message/opinion any further.

I have a lot of complex feelings about this issue. I think there is much in America's political system that needs an Extreme Makeover (Home Edition).

(Reply to this)(Parent)

trypanocorax
2008-03-29 02:00 pm UTC (link)

So that's what you sound like! And yay you! Pluto was ALWAYS a planet, and demoting it on account of some obscure new, and essentially mean-spirited, set of criteria doesn't actually change anything in real terms, so I don't see any possible harm in going on calling it a planet, if only for old times's sake! Apart from which, it's good for nobody when science gets too elitist. Hope you and your fellow protestors win this one!

(Reply to this)

bitguru.wordpress.com
2008-03-31 06:27 am UTC (link)

I don't understand the passion behind this issue.

Pluto should be a planet why exactly? Because we were all so taught way back in elementary school? Thank god that's not the generally-accepted standard for truth (with apologies to Paul Simon's Kodachrome (http://www.lyricsdepot.com/paul-simon/kodachrome.html)).

For what it's worth, the American Dialect Society named plutoed (http://www.americandialect.org/index.php/amerdial/plutoed_voted_2006_word_of_the_year/) as the 2006 Word of the Year. To my mind, though, its meaning should be closer to unbless than demote, which is how it seems to be defined.

I haven't considered Pluto a "true" planet since, in my teens, I learned about its oddball orbit (http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/pluto/page.html). So I guess by 2006 I had built up some immunity to the ire when IAU's plutoed Pluto.

You may, of course, continue to call Pluto a planet if you like. The IAU is no more binding on you w.r.t. Pluto's planethood than the American Dialect Society is binding on me w.r.t. the precise definition of plutoed.

(btw: How Pluto was discovered is interesting, but I think less interesting than that for Neptune.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

dlasky
2008-03-31 07:15 am UTC (link)

Brian, it's good to hear from you. My passion for the issue relates more to the back-room voting and elitism of the IAU than to any sentimental feelings I have for Pluto. The street protest had as much to do with serious protesting as a Renaissance festival has to do with the actual Renaissance.

I'm not a scientist, but I don't think this case is as open and shut as you're saying it is. The issue that forced the hand of the IAU was the discovery of Eris, which is actually larger than Pluto. Do they name Eris the 10th planet, and possibly open the door to even more planets being discovered in the future? Or do they make restrictions on what qualifies as a planet, and reclassify Pluto and Eris as something else. As you know, they did the latter, calling Eris and Pluto "dwarf planets". Interestingly, one can't say "dwarf planet" without saying the word "planet". So these sun-orbiting objects (with moons) are still planets. Just... dwarf planets. Not, as you say, "true" planets.

The issue goes beyond whether or not Pluto is a planet -- it opens up debate on what a planet really is, how many might be out there, and what else is floating around out in the Kuiper Belt and beyond. The solar system is not as simple as the sun, planets, and moons we were shown in elementary school. By not opening the floor to discussion, I feel the IAU only succeeds in "dumbing down" the public's view of our complex and fascinating solar system.

What I REALLY want to know is: if Pluto sometimes cuts into Neptune's orbit, is there a chance that the two worlds could one day collide? And if so... what would happen?!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

bitguru.wordpress.com
2008-03-31 05:37 pm UTC (link)

I wouldn't call the IAU's action a "back-room" activity. The debate was pretty much an open one, though it is true that the IAU had only 9000 members, and that only 4% of those participated in the Pluto vote. [I got those figures are from http://plutopetition.com/unplanet.php which seems to be well-written, informative, and reasonably unbiased, so I recommend giving it a read.]

Pluto's orbit does sometimes cut into Neptune's, but more striking to me is that the plane of Pluto's orbit is 17 degrees off from all the rest of the planets.

There is no chance that Neptune and Pluto will collide because they are locked into a 3:2 resonance. For every three orbits of Neptune around the Sun, Pluto makes exactly two orbits around the sun. So Neptune's position when Pluto crosses its orbit is always one of a handful of fixed spots.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

dlasky
2008-03-31 07:17 pm UTC (link)

A lot of scientists around the world were probably upset that they were not included in the vote.

I'm relieved to know that there is no chance of Neptune and Pluto colliding. It makes sense -- if it was going to happen at all, it would have occurred a long long time ago.

I didn't know about the 17 degree shift in Pluto's orbital plane. Crazy!! Pluto is marching to its own drummer.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Mini Sitemap:

Username:		Create an Account Forgot your login? Login w/ OpenID
Password:
	Remember Me
	English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…